To encounter the absolute is not yet enlightenment.
I have commented before upon this one line from the Sandokai, but today I want to take a different look at it. As the years have gone by, and my experience with teachings and teachers and the whole world of spirituality has increased, I’m beginning to see this one simple line as probably the greatest bit of wisdom that every spiritual teacher should know by heart. For so many doing the spiritual gig have encountered the absolute but not yet seen that fully flower into enlightenment.
What does it mean “to encounter the absolute?”
The Absolute. How to explain what is beyond explanation? Many people have had spiritual experiences. You meditate and experience bliss. You walk in the woods and are overwhelmed by the presence of nature and life in the trees and plants, earth and sky. You recall a past life. You have an “ah-ha!” moment about some aspect of your existence, a great insight into how things work. All of these are the joys of spirituality. But none of them are what we mean by encountering the absolute.
To encounter the absolute is to suddenly see, to know, to experience the truth. It is wordless, soundless Silence. It is often described as a parting of the veil, the veil of believing you are a separate self. For one shining moment (or hours or days or years) you know what you are. There is nothing that is not what you are. You are the formless, empty, spirit, and yet you are everything.
“Have I experienced an encounter with the absolute?” you ask yourself. The answer is almost surely no. If you’ve encountered it, you know. You have no doubt. No spiritual experience can compare. And none will ever mean anything to you again.
Why is this not enlightenment?
While the absolute is the formless truth, it is being experienced here in the world of form. As such, the world of form and its priorities may arise again to dominate the experience of someone who has encountered the absolute. In other words, the veil may part, which has the tendency to tear holes in the veil, but the pieces remaining will often fall back to obscure our sight. These pieces we could call remnants of the ego, our belief in a separate self.
Once you’ve seen, you’ve seen. You can’t un-know what you now know. But you can get lost in the mind and the world again. You know it isn’t you, but the momentum of what was your human life is still carrying you forward. And thus you can still be operating in the world from a not awake, not enlightened place.
Many (most?) spiritual teachers whom we encounter in the world are in this exact position. They have tasted the absolute, but they have not reached a place that we would call enlightened. They are still operating from some sense of a personal identity. They are not fully awake.
And that is perfectly fine. A teacher is not lesser because he hasn’t fully awakened. There are still many, many people who need what he or she has to offer. The grave fallacy that so many run into, which probably leads to a certain amount of difficulties, is the notion that a teacher needs to be “done” to be a teacher. But it isn’t so. All that is required is honesty with yourself and those you teach and interact with. Much can be learned, much can be shared.
My story of encountering the absolute
Please keep in mind throughout what follows that it is just a story. All experiences are just experiences, and they really don’t carry any deeper meaning. Whether it is the Buddha under the Bodhi tree, or Tom Stine in his favorite chair, the only purpose for stories like this one are to help others.
That said, after many years of spiritual experiences, meditation, retreats, you name it, here is what I experienced one evening. These are the words I wrote down the following day:
I had spent a good part of the day Friday experiencing a strange on and off anxiety which mostly went away when I sat down and was still. I worked with a client in the late afternoon, and we had a really good session. However, I felt a compelling need by the evening to spend a long time sitting and meditating. I got a bit distracted, though, and wasted time on the Internet. By nine o’clock, the compulsion to sit had grown stronger, and so I sat.
As I sat, many thoughts and beliefs came up, and I started doing some inquiry on them. I saw through a number of the beliefs, and felt the whole thing releasing easily. But as I kept going further with it, I kept coming back to asking “who is the one who believes that?” And after using that question a number of times, I found myself asking, “what am I?”
Then the strangest thought came to me. The thought was, “Everyone puts the emphasis on ‘I’ when the emphasis should be on AM.” And then I saw it, I mean I actually saw it, I saw behind the word “I.” Or as Ramana would say, I saw behind the I-thought. It was like it was suddenly transparent. And there was nothing there. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It was as if “I” is just a little hazy thing, and behind it is absolutely nothing, no substance, no essence, no fullness. I is completely empty of meaning, of ANYTHING. But as I’ve heard Adya say many times, “it is the fullest nothing you’ve ever seen.” I could feel this nothing throughout my whole “being.”
And I started laughing. I was laughing so hard. I kept saying over and over again, “well I’ll be damned.” My mind couldn’t believe it, but “I” knew that it was real. And then it got even funnier. I realized that every time I’ve ever thought or said the word “I,” it was a joke. There is no I. Never was. And every time I thought “I” this or “I” that, I started laughing even harder. I couldn’t stop laughing. And I could barely say “I”. The word still seems like a joke today. At least I can say it and type it without laughing. But whenever I say “I”, I’m not talking about anyone.
So today everything is a little weird. My mind keeps asking when this is going to stop. It wants to know if this is permanent, or abiding, or is it going to fade away and leave me. And yet when I look behind the thought “I”, I see this, this, no-thing. It permeates everything. And yet my mind is still doing its thing, telling its stories, doing its silly routine. But it does seem quieter. And it seems so ridiculous.
And so the non-existent journey continues. The ego resurrects itself from the ashes of its undoing, but it is fundamentally changed. I can never look at it or life the same again. I’ve seen it for what it is, an empty thought. But yet, there it is, often beguiling, often giving me opportunities to get lost in thought and feelings for a few hours or a few days. But always then the opportunity to see fresh and to “know again” what I have always known.
But “to encounter the absolute is not yet enlightenment.” I get it. The absolute has not flowered into what we would call enlightenment. Not yet. It is very strange, but I can feel an undercurrent, something carrying me forward, in ways that I cannot imagine or toward a destination that I cannot foresee. But onward it goes. And that is the way of it for all of us. Always moving onward toward the fullest expression of the Absolute.
I’m grateful that I was introduced to this powerful reminder of humility in the face of whatever I may experience. I only wish that many, many others on the spiritual path would know these words, too. There are more than a few teachers out there who could use a dose of humility. Wouldn’t you agree?
Thanks for reading. Let me hear from you below. Namaste.
Hi Tom,
Great post.
In guru’s or spiritual teachers I look for a sense of lightness – that they don’t take themselves too seriously. I don’t think you can once you see through the mind games. This is something of a test I use for how seriously I’ll treat what a teacher has to say.
Thanks for a great post.
Hey Tom,
You describe the situation so beautifully. It really is true that when you get a glimpse of the absolute, you know that you know and nothing in this world compares… yet the ego remnants eventually come back and you feel “human” once again.
The humility you mentioned is definitely important, for it’s not “you” having the experience anyways, nor is there a “you” to take credit for or have pride in the experience itself.
Great, Great post my friend.
Hi Tom,
So I have a question. You had this experience, you got a glimpse or maybe more than that and you ‘know’. You also then have the return to a state either the same or similar to what was before this scenario.
How do you feel now, besides this sense of a continuing journey?
@Evan Thankss! I definitely agree about the sense of lightness. Given that some who is truly awake knows that there is no “me” how can he do anything but laugh at himself? Or at least not take themselves seriously at all. Nisargadatta even went beyond that: if you brought up the subject of “him” he would just flat out say there was nothing to him and it was irrelevant to talk about it.
@Ariel You got it. It isn’t you having the experience. No “you” anywhere.
@Barbara Great question! I started to type out an answer, and then realized it was almost a blog post. So, please allow me to answer that question is a few days! Thanks for asking….
Thanks for a great post and for sharing your own experiences.
I think many, teachers as well as others, can use a dose of humility.
A very insightful post, Tom. Thanks.
I’m not sure I would agree on quite how you frame it, but its worth an explore. I see awakening as a process. Experiences like that are key steps in it. The key question is -was it an experience or did you become That? Did you switch from being Tom experiencing the silence to the Silence experiencing through Tom, or some variation? Of course, this is not the forum to answer the question.
That switch is the first step. Some call it early or first enlightenment as it is a point of Self-realization. But it is certainly not complete. As you know from Adya’s talks, after this switch, the ego often resurfaces and tries for a time to regain control. Even in full enlightenment, the mind remains and in activity has thoughts. The key is if we identify with them, or they are simply there, like traffic.
With time, the fullness of the experience develops and the silence and bliss become unassailable and tend to dominate the experience of the person. Sat Chit Ananda they call this. But that is not full enlightenment.
Again, as Adya describes it, the silence moves out into the world, absorbing the mind, heart, and gut. There’s different ways of describing it, but the heart stage is the dawning of infinite love then the gut stage when the core identity goes, the BBQ. Then the ‘person’ disappears fully. Sounds like you had a flavour of that. The division of ‘inside’ and ‘outside’ is gone. And that opens the door to the next realization. The Silence in all things. Oneness. Intimacy with everything.
Just as in the first realization, this realization is usually followed by some further clearing and integration. With that comes ‘full enlightenment’, I suspect what you mean here by enlightenment.
But that is not the end of the journey. The journey does not end. Infinity is just that.
Your comment that few teachers are in that full state is quite true. Even some historically famous ones you’ve quoted elsewhere here. A number of excellent teachers have reached that first awakening above and know the truth of their being. Some teachings consider that it. But until they have pierced the illusion of the world, a veil remains on knowing.
What can I say – you got my started (laughs)
Thanks again Tom
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@Bengt I’m really glad you liked the post. I agree that humility is a most welcome commodity.
@Davidya I will answer your question: in my way of seeing things, you can’t call it an awakening unless you absolutely are what you are, even if only momentarily. So, what happened to me was that which I am knew itself for that period of time. Silence experiencing through Tom. And still experiencing through Tom, even if egoic nonsense still clouds the experience.
Yes, I’m distinguishing awakening from enlightenment, not really for any great reason, but just as a point of explanation. I like the term abiding awakening just as much as enlightenment. Silence knowing itself fully.
As for teachers, I will give an example of a wonderful teacher who has experienced an awakening without going “all the way”: Hale Dwoskin of the Sedona Method. He clearly has seen. But he isn’t in the same boat as Ramana or even his teacher, Lester Levenson. There is still “a there there” if you know what I mean.
When I saw the title of this article, I was immediately interested because I’ve always been fascinated with the subject of enlightment and whether humans truly achieve it or not.
Then you started talking about that one special moment where some people have had a moment where they just “lnew” the veil was pulled back for them to peek into who they really are.
My mind kept saying, “I hope Tom tells us about something that happened to him.” When I saw that you were, indeed, going to tell us your “peeking” story, I was delighted.
But before I could read it, I had to respond to mother nature – I mentally told the computer screen that I would be right back because I wanted to give this your experience my full attention.
I came back and I sat here and read it with intense interest. It was nothing at all what I thought it would be.
Why?
Because I thought it would be similiar to some of my own experiences were I “knew” certain things would happen before they did but yours was not about that at all. It ran much deeper.
I still have to go back and re-read about the “I.” I tried to imagine what it must have been like to sit in that chair and laugh like you did at the realization that the “I” means nothing.
Utterly fascinating!
Tom:
I loved reading about your experience. I had something similar happen when I had a moment of realization – but mine was about a story I had always told myself about money and realizing immediately, without question, completely and unequivocally that my belief was complete bullshit. I started laughing like I’d gone mad. I was in my car, in traffic, and I had complete hysterics. To this day, when I think back on that, it still makes me smile. Thanks for reminding me how that felt!
Annie
Hi Tom
Thanks for confirming. I felt that enlightenment was a bad word for it all around as it was so full of concepts. Self-realization is a term you might use for this first awakening as you have realized who you are. And become it, in so much as its clear yet.
I’ve started using the word enlightenment a bit more as an alternate word for people to relate to, but always in context of a better word.
I also think you’ll find you won’t like the word enlightenment for full realization either. (laughs) Its not a point in time or achievement either. It too is a process, punctuated by a couple of openings (loss of identity and then everything else) followed by integration. Even one fellow I know who blew right into it in a few days still had lots of post processing to do. Its the nature of growth.
@Stephen Glad you gave the post your full attention!
The whole spiritual journey boils down to one thing: what are you? That’s it. And the reason is simple: you’ve spent your whole life thinking you were someone, an “I”, when in fact you are a no-thing, an emptiness, a Silence, that happens to be the very nature of everything everywhere. That’s it. Nothing more to it. And nothing less. It is the most incredible AND ORDINARY thing there is.
@Annie I’m glad to help you remember a wonderful experience!
@Davidya You know, there is one sense in which I love the term “enlightenment” and that is the “light” that I see. It really does seem to cause a en-light-ening of things. There is almost a glow when I stop to notice it. It’s always there, but I ignore it at times. I suspect that the word came about because of a similar experience. And also the slightly subtler meaning of “turning on a light” in the mental darkness. The word is a good one. It has simply been corrupted by a lot of silliness over the centuries.
Absolutely, it’s all a process. No finish lines. One big process. I was listening to the recording of the last Adyashanti retreat I attended, and I noticed how he spoke several times about “clear seeing”. The take home message was that spirit is ever working to see things more clearly through us. That’s its “mission” in the world. Clear seeing. So, no matter where you are, there is always more clear seeing to be done.
Hi Tom
On the teachers question, I could list quite a few. Some recommended the book ‘Onions to Pearls’ by Satyam Nadeen. He’s the one who coined the term Deliverance for the post awakening return of the ego. Indeed he covers it well – he woke in prison. But then he stays stuck in this tiny box around it – why we’re here and all that. As Lorne has observed, we should not consider deliverance necessary. It may arise but if we expect it, we may actually encourage or extend it.
Someone observed that the Zen, Tantra, and Advaita traditions recognize full enlightenment in Oneness but that many others simply recognize self-realization. Buddhism is apparently one of those. They explained that Buddha was very thoroughly self-realized but did not recognize God realization or Unity. I don’t know enough about Buddhism to say, but its certainly food for thought.
BTW – that was no slight on Buddhism. Buddha was remarkably accomplished and there is deep value in his teaching. But if you understand that this is what is possible in just self-realization, you begin to see why it is so hard to describe higher states. It is several realities removed from typical experience.
How can one relate to experiences like the dissolution of the personal universe? Perceiving the universe from the outside? Bliss overshadowing all experience as a part of daily life?
Stephen – if I may observe that’s one of the interesting things about awakening. It is NEVER what you expect as it has nothing to do with any ideas of the mind. You cannot imagine it as it is beyond imagination. Often, as Tom did, people find this really, really funny. And it can be really, really funny to watch someone else wake up. The huh? That’s it? One of those cosmic jokes. As Tom mentions, once the surprise wears off, we see it is perfectly normal and ordinary. We were that all along. I was right in front of our noses, as it were.
@Tom – on the ‘light’ – that’s the refinement of perception part. And exactly – when you stop and look. You’ll find it will get a LOT stronger and brighter with the clear seeing you mention. (laughs) Seeing life, seeing consciousness, seeing the flow or movement of awareness through everything, seeing what is in front of you becoming in the moment – the actual process of creation. We’re capable of a lot more than we know.
Enlightenment is the restoration of cosmic humor.
~ Adyashanti
@Davidya You know, the comments on Buddhism would explain a lot of the inconsistencies in Buddhism IF we actually knew what the Buddha said and taught. Quite likely, half of what he “said” as recorded in the canon is what someone said he said, ie, through their own filters. In other words, people who hadn’t awakened fully. Same with Jesus. There was something about the Buddha that had such raw energy that the world ended up with Buddhism. That makes me think he himself had gone THERE. But as for his followers? Doubtful. And don’t get me started on the yahoos that Jesus had hanging around him! Yikes!
)
Thanks Tom. I’ll resist further comment as this is supposed to be your blog. (laughs)
if you are parked there, no problem. if you just visit, keep quiet.
@Gregory I hear what you are saying. Thanks!
@Davidya,
Have you read anything by David Hawkins? He talks quite a bit about the various levels of enlightenment.
@Ariel
Well – this is Tom’s blog so I’ll just comment briefly. I have reviewed some of Hawkins material, especially around levels as I’ve researched the subject quite a bit. While his model has some correspondence to models of consciousness, he is using an effect for measurement that is too indirect. Rating feeling values is also a recipe for illusion. He places himself above some of histories greatest saints which is a very bad sign. The key upper end where it’s actually about enlightenment is sloppy, vague and broken. The fatal flaw is that Kinesiology is not objective. Perhaps a useful tool for probing the sub-conscious but to judge another’s value?
You may find the “Rough Guide” here useful – he tanks on their rating: (green button)
http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/guide/index.html
I would take Tom’s advice over in ‘Spiritual Awakening’ comments. Be willing to learn from everyone but take it all with a big grain of salt.
help from your community please .. looking for a way to make the argument that consciousness has subtler levels.
the concept seems to be missing in the neuroscience world, and would be a valuable addition to what those guys are trying to do.
(of course, these are the same guys that think consciousness comes from meat, a biochemical product of brain interaction, so maybe there is no hope anyway, never the twain shall meet)
@Ariel & David To be honest, I find all the stuff like Hawkins to be a bit boring. I know, how awful of me. But something in me just yawns when the theories get too sophisticated and the levels too intense. And guess what? Before Hawkins started his thing, he was hanging out in Sedona, AZ with…. Lester Levenson, the creator of the Sedona Method. And Lester had this little chart of emotions that he taught and…. well…. you can figure out the rest.
hard to pull the wool over tom’s eyes with charts! lol.
@Gregory
You have an uphill battle. First their model is upside down. Secondly, it is not typically in their experience. Net result, the concept of subtler consciousness is meaningless and pointless. Heck, they are surprised by research that indicates people can even get happier. Happiness is considered fixed, that we’re predisposed to a certain value.
Occasionally there is something that stirs the pot though. Jill Bolte Taylor made quite stir. She’s still thinking subtler means different part of the brain, but its a step.
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229
@Tom
Yeah, I have no idea why but I’m fascinated by process and pattern. Boring (laughs)
Hawkins has nothing on Theosophy. Talk about complex. The issues with Hawkins are less that he copied, but that he presents himself and the system as the judge. Levenson never fell into that trap.
my take on jill taylor was the same as yours, … a lot of science has been seeming very primitive to me lately, and i expect that the backlash against religion that has been underway for awhile will soon extend into science. the should stick with tech.
Thanks for sharing that with us. Very exciting and touching.
The first glimpse of truth is a funny moment, laughed for weeks afterwards, still do actually.
Enlightenment is a deeper knowing than a glimpse though, many don’t realize that.
It took Adya 6 years from first glimpse to full enlightenment and many teachers report the same.
My ego is still in operation but I do have flashes of oneness sometimes in places you may least expect, like in a shopping mall surrounded by hundreds of people I feel totally alone and realize they are all me, my true nature, they must wonder what i’m laughing at! Ha Ha.
Great site, thanks for sharing your thoughts Tom.
@Brendan Thanks for the comments. I laughed a bunch too. It truly is a wonderful moment when that which we are awakens to itself.
Brendan – very funny indeed. I’ve been in the room when people awoke several times. Sometimes astonished. Sometimes funny. But often the whole room bursts into laughter with them. For it is Self laughing at Itself. Sometimes, this is disconcerting for the newly awake (laughs)
I found this article really interesting – thank you! Sorry if I go on too long below – I’ve never posted like this before, and I don’t quite know the etiquette, and you have sparked some major thoughts!
Last year I had a time (it lasted several months) when I ‘encountered the absolute’ over and over again. I set out to meditate on the nature of the universe, and had the great pleasure and priviledge of getting what I was looking for. You say that you ‘know’ when you encounter the absolute, and this was certainly my experience: when I tried to describe my certainty to someone, I found myself saying that it wasn’t ME who was certain, it was the ideas themselves(‘ideas’ is the best word I can find, but it’s still not quite right!) that were so sure, and I was lucky enough to be let in on them! (It is hugely difficult to put this into words; I hope I have explained ok!) The experience and insights I gained were hugely joyful, and the joy spilled over into all areas of my life.
However, like you say, the veil parts and then it falls back again. Somehow I lost the ‘tuning’ or whatever it was that giving me these ‘encounters with the absolute’. It had something to do with everyday life getting in the way. My roles as single mother to two children and freelance researcher and so on seemed to set up some kind of ‘interference’ which I couldn’t manage to weave into the music. I think this was because I often need to do things which my ego would not choose to do of its own free will – things I do as ‘duties’ – though I try to do them with good grace!
I experienced some bereavement and frustration at this. I was a little resentful that I couldn’t just take myself away from all the ‘distractions’ and live like a hermit, up a mountain or in a cave, meditating, and maintaining my direct line to the universe! (I hope you can hear that I’m laughing at myself a little here!)
Then I realised: life is life is life! Basically, I had been thinking “It would be so easy to be enlightened if it wasn’t for LIFE getting in the way”. (Spelled out like that, it sounds ridiculous!) But living life has got to be what it’s all about, surely?!
Now, a year or so on, the veil has not yet parted again. I maintain a memory of my ‘encounters with the absolute’ – but it’s just a memory – a rationally held thing – and not at the moment a directly experienced, intuited thing.
I think my ‘next step’ is almost certainly to discover how to ‘encounter the absolute’ while ALSO doing my ‘duties’. It’s a ‘zen through sweeping’ kind of thing!!
Also (here’s something interesting, important and challenging!) because I am living with a teenager, I get almost daily in-your-face reminders of the dramas that Ego throws up! I am constantly reminded that my own path CANNOT EVER BE walked alone. It is easy to be so focussed on our own personal spiritual journeys that we forget there are others all around us on theirs!
I think the challenge, for me at least, is not (or not ONLY) to find or walk my own ‘path to enlightenment’, but to find how my path weaves and fits with all others – to enrich the whole tapestry, so to speak!
Also (I am not certain I can put this into words adequately) I have a sneaking suspicion that PRECISELY BECAUSE there are so many of us swimming in the flow, so to speak, the waters are constantly changing! The ‘absolute’ is elusive – and maybe it always will be – because it is ever-changing! If so, enlightenment’ isn’t reaching the end of the path – it can’t be – it is something more like getting into a perfect stride!
Meanwhile, partly to reflect on this process and partly just to have some fun, I’ve started a blog (it’s at http://gogowiththeflow.blogspot.com ). Notice I want to ‘go-go’ with the flow right now! Like you say, humour can be a great way to encounter the absolute!
@Flow Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, it certainly sounds as if the veil parted and you KNEW. I can really relate to the not being able to really explain it. It is beyond words, isn’t it? I do have one suggestion, maybe it will help, I have no idea. It is: inquire into “who” had the experience of the veil parting. See if the “you” that can remember it is what experienced it. What are you when the veil parts and when it doesn’t part? Maybe that will help. Again, thanks for the comments. Namaste.
Flow- thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you understand it. Keep in mind that its a process. What is happening subjectively is not always a clue to the bigger picture. Growth and development tends in cycles so we have a time of dipping in, then a time of integration before its time again. I’ve found that in retrospect even those times of ‘interference’ were times of great growth but more perhaps background work.
Don’t forget that the memory is not the experience. Don’t identify too much with what was or it can get in the way of what is. I’ve seen people struggle with letting go of past experiences of ‘reality’ to awaken.
The absolute does not change – it only seems elusive. What is changing is your relationship to it. Awakening is very simple, so simple its a surprise. But you have to come to a place where it can be. Where you can let go of the need for it to be anything.
Tom, Davidya – thank you so much for your responses =)
Tom, you raise a very useful question. I can answer part of it easily: the ‘me’ that remembers is NOT the same as the ‘me’ that experienced. Actually, the second half of that sentence doesn’t really capture it – because it wasn’t so much that I had the experience as that the experience had me! I asked/meditated (I called it ‘paying attention to the light’) and ‘it’ opened up and let me see.
On the other hand, the ‘me’ that remembers is definitely ME – it’s definitely ego – tho an ego that’s a little older and wiser!
Memory, like Davidya says, is not the experience. The tricky bit, as I see it, is that I still seem to need ego to function day-to-day as a mother, worker, etc. I do not yet know how to make the ‘everyday’ into a meditation.
Daviya – you are right about our relationships to the absolute. But I would REALLY like to talk more about your statement that ‘the absolute does not change’. Unless I have misunderstood you, I think I fundamentally disagree! My encounters with the absolute told me that it is EVER-changing, constantly in flux. I am very sure of this because it is one of the things I meditated on and (um, inadequate words again!) intuited/was given understanding of. But I would love to explore and challenge the ideas, and hear other people’s beliefs/experiences – tho perhaps some other time and place, eh?! And of course, because paradox is everywhere, it is ALSO unchanging, in that it is ‘unchangingly changing’.
I could go on forever, but I’ll stop now! I am sooo glad to have found your site Tom – because I am in contact with almost no-one who ‘gets’ any of this, and because finding it has been a small reawakening in itself. Thank you!
Hi Flow – your name is both the subject observing and the subject of discussion (laughs)
The definition of absolute is unchanging. That’s why people call it that.
But you are having a clear experience of a more advanced quality of it. The so called world of change is really the silence, moving within Itself. This movement some call the flow. But it is not a flow of some thing, it is the flow of Itself. Seen clearly, there is no subject and object duality. Again, it is just within Itself. Pure Oneness, wholeness. Make sense?
While it may seem to change it does not really. It simply fluxes. Appears to vibrate, then subside. Wave, then settle. The waves rise up on the ocean but never become separate from it. They remain water.
Finding a community of the awake is very valuable. Being around people who’s mind is not always lost in illusion. That’s getting easier.
Hello again
(Yes, it’s funny, that coincidence with my name – Flow has been my nickname since I was 11, and I’ve recently started using it again because it resonated so strongly with me!)
The water/ocean analogy is great! – the absolute ebbs and flows, ripples and swells, like the ocean. Yes, it remains ‘itself’, just like the ocean remains the ocean, whatever floats in it. We may just be saying the same thing in different words, Davidya (cos like Tom says, it’s beyond words, really!), but I am still curious about whether we disagree on one important point…
It is my belief/experience that the essence of the absolute is changing, *as we attend to it*. We are used to the notion that WE seek enlightenment/greater consciousness/’god’ and that we change as we go through this process… but I see that *the absolute* is also seeking awareness of *itself*, and using us to do this. As WE become more awake, the absolute is able to know more about itself. I don’t think it’s just semantics: the increasing self-awareness of the absolute is a change in its quality if not its quantity.
I am not sure whether this is ‘old hat’ or ‘heresy’ – sorry if it’s either! But as I scroll back thru this discussion I see Tom made an earlier comment that seems to be saying the same thing that I am groping towards:
“… Listening to … Adyashanti … I noticed how he spoke several times about “clear seeing”. The take home message was that spirit is ever working to see things more clearly through us. That’s its “mission” in the world. Clear seeing”.
Thank you for being here!
@Flow I guess my thinking is that the absolute is the unchanging, yet it is constantly appearing as that which changes. The absolute as Being is the unchanging. As Becoming it is the changing. Being – Becoming. Becoming – Being. On and on. Not that the words matter, but I think that is the distinction I see here. And thanks for all your comments!
Hi Flow
It’s very tricky to put this stuff into words. Words are like memory, representations of something else. Do they have the same representations for me as they do for you? Enough to communicate perhaps… (laughs)
The key point about all this is to remember its all a perspective. There is one reality but many, many ways of experiencing it. I’m not even sure if a human nervous system is capable of taking it all in.
You are having a clear experience of the absolute but also seeing that it seems to change. That change is no different than It. This is a good experience but there is an even deeper value.
The key thing is that it appears to change because of shifts in our perception from moment to moment. Shifts in how we “attend to it” if you will.
This shifting is taking place as the perceiver is still distinct from the perceived and the relationship between them shifts. One experience that may arise is the collapse of time. When the past and future collapse fully into the moment. Then we see everything happening at once. One of the reasons Eastern gods are shown with many arms, heads, etc.
Space collapses when the perceiver collapses into the perceived, when they are not seen to be different. When the Self flows back into itself.
When there is no longer any difference and it’s all at once, there is no change to happen.
The only difference between this perception and your perception is the clarity of perception. None of it actually ever changes.
The problem with a description like this is that the mind cannot comprehend it. Thus, a teacher will tell stories in metaphor. Or they describe it in a way that can be related to, a little ahead of current perception. Like your quote from Tom. Lead the student to the next greatest truth.
For example, at first it seems it is us working to awaken. After first awakening, we see it as Self working through us, so Self seems to the one that was awakening through us after all. But in Oneness, we are the Self and were never not awake. So there was nothing to do and no process to accomplish. A ‘way’ or process can become meaningless. Where do you need to go to get where you are?
Each of these is completely true at that point in our path. The teacher will natural speak to what is useful.
An analogy about change comes to mind. If you look out at a distant horizon and scan your eyes across it, you will see variations in the landscape.(perhaps less so on the prairies
But did your looking change it? Is the landscape changing before your eyes? Change only appears because we are shifting our attention across time. When our attention includes all time, nothing changes.
Make any sense? (laughs)
BTW – this does not mean it’s boring. It means we’re not stuck in a tiny little box. We are the vastness of everything in an unimaginably large playground.
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