The you that you think of as you (and that thinks of you as you, and so on) is not you, it’s just the character that the underlying truth of you is dreaming into brief existence. Enlightenment isn’t in the character, it’s in the underlying truth. Now, there’s nothing wrong with being a dream character, of course, unless it’s your goal to wake up, in which case the dream character must be ruthlessly annihilated. If your desire is to experience transcendental bliss or supreme love or altered states of consciousness or awakened kundalini, or to quality for heaven, or to liberate all sentient beings, or simply to become the best dang person you can be, then rejoice!, you’re in the right place: the dream state, the dualistic universe. However, if your interest is to cut the crap and figure out what’s true, then you’re in the wrong place and you’ve got a very messy fight ahead and there’s no point in pretending otherwise.
But beauty, real beauty, ends where intellectual expression begins. Intellect is in itself a mode of exaggeration, and destroys the harmony of a face. The moment one sits down to think, one becomes all nose, or all forehead, or something horrid. Look at the successful men in any of the learned professions. How perfectly hideous they are! Except, of course, in the Church. But then in the Church they don’t think. A bishop keeps on saying at the age of eighty what he was told to say when he was a boy of eighteen, and as a natural consequence he always looks absolutely delightful.
Intelligent practice always deals with just one thing: the fear at the base of human existence, the fear that I am not. And of course I am not, but the last thing I want to know is that.
Q: Since all is pre-ordained, is our self-realization also pre-ordained? Or are we free there at least?
A: Destiny refers only to name and shape. Since you are neither body nor mind, destiny has no control over you. You are completely free. The cup is conditioned by its shape, material, use and so on. But the space within the cup is free. It happens to be in the cup only when viewed in connection with the cup. Otherwise, it is just space. As long as there is a body, you appear to be embodied. Without the body you are not disembodied — you just are.
So the most important thing to realize is this: Your life has an inner purpose and an outer purpose. Inner purpose concerns Being and is primary. Outer purpose concerns doing and is secondary…. Your inner purpose is to awaken. It is as simple as that. You share that purpose with every other person on the planet – because it is the purpose of humanity. Your inner purpose is an essential part of the purpose of the whole, the universe and its emerging intelligence.
Buddhism stands unique in the history of human thought in denying the existence of a Soul, Self or Atman. According to the teachings of the Buddha, the idea of self is an imaginary, false belief which has no corresponding reality, and it produces harmful thoughts of ‘me’ and ‘mine’, selfish desire, craving, attachment, hatred, ill-will, conceit, pride, egoism, and other defilements, impurities and problems. It is the source of all troubles in the world from personal conflicts to wars between nations. In short, to this false view can be traced all the evil in the world.
on July 26th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Very nice interview, Tom. Larry seems like a nice, down to earth, let’s go bowling kind of guy. I enjoyed it.
It would be nice to have these interviews as a regular part of the blog. I enjoy the listening.
Takuin
on July 26th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
@Takuin Yeah, Larry is a really great person to know. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. And, as you can guess, I’m planning on making interviews and podcasts a regular part of the blog. At first, I’m thinking once per month. We shall see. Glad you enjoyed the interview.
on July 27th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Spent the afternoon with you and Larry.
This is a long interview but the first time I have heard a spiritual teacher speak about awakening in a simple, logical, transparent way. It was an incredible and beautiful experience.
Take some time to listen – or Tom will send you the transcript from his blog. There is no guru or hype here. Just truth. You know it when you hear it.
on July 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
@Corinne Now you know why I wanted to feature Larry for an interview. You do know truth when you hear it. I knew it when I first talked with him. It is a real joy. Glad you spent the afternoon listening to us.
on July 28th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I find it fascinating to hear different people’s stories of their process. Thank you for a great one.
Interesting comments about the ego not dying but rather simply we loose identification with it. I thought about this a little and see that he is using the word a little differently. I would agree that we loose identification with the identity as “me”, but that identification is what many call the ego and in that sense the ego dies. But the individual does not, it simply takes on a lesser role. Another one of those terminology use variants.
Some of things he said I don’t entirely agree with but it’s obvious that he is speaking honestly from his experience. And he does lay out awakening clearly. After awakening, some may find other approaches valuable, as we’ve discussed here elsewhere.
Thanks again for an insightful interview.
on July 28th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
@Davidya One thing to keep in mind is how Adya (and perhaps Larry) defines ego. He will often refer to it as a “movement of mind” or simply just a thought. Same with “me.” So, in that context, ego doesn’t end as thought doesn’t end. But we no longer belief we are those thoughts. And the movement of mind decreases dramatically.
on July 28th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Sorry to be off topic, but nice new header image Tom!
on July 28th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Agreed Takuin. I was debating about messaging Tom offline about it. Nice and clean and clear.
Curious we associate ‘eastern’ with ’spiritual’ though.
on July 28th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
@Takuin & Davidya Thanks for the compliments. I really like the change, too. Since this is a spiritual blog, I had to “zen” it up a bit. Surely you’ve noticed that “zen” is a requirement in blogs these days, especially in the title. I loved MonkMojo’s comments a while back on the videos I did. He kept saying “I want my ZenTV!”
on July 28th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
well – my blog is pretty un-Zen that way. But then, I’m amused by obscure symbolism. (laughs)
on July 28th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Thank you for the interview Tom.
I’ll now transfer it to my ipod so that I can hear it over and over again.
on August 4th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
the hardest thing, and the most necessary, don’t dramatize this awakening thing. not even a bit
on August 4th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
@Gregory I agree completely. It is the most ordinary thing.
on August 20th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Fantastic interview, Tom! And thanks also to Larry. A very compelling first-person account of spiritual experience, something I always enjoy hearing. Reminds me of Buddhist Geeks, the podcast my friends Ryan and Vince started that got me excited about podcasting.
I can’t wait to listen to more of your podcasts.
on August 20th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Oooooh, I love the idea of the mind as the tool for awakening.
And thanks for covering the idea of ego-bashing that runs so prevalent in spiritual circles. Only peace leads to peace, only love to love.
on August 20th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
p.s. I would love to get these podcasts in smaller lengths, perhaps cutting up a longer interview into multiple parts. Around 20-30 minutes is best for me.
on August 21st, 2008 at 11:23 am
@Duff Hey, glad you liked the interview. Larry is a very cool guy, to say the least. You are quite correct: peace leads to peace.
And I agree: shorter podcasts. I should have made this one a 3 parter. I’m learning the “secret” that people have short attention spans, myself included. Next one will be done in 2-3 parts.