Past Lives Ain’t What They Used To Be
Written on August 6, 2008 by Tom Stine
I love the subject of past lives or reincarnation. I went to a “psychic” once who told me that I was one of Napoleon’s generals. I guess that explains why I love speaking French, eat French food and I’m 5 ft 6 in tall (can’t be taller than the Emperor!).
Yet even though I love the subject of past lives, I have to say that I don’t have much investment in the concept. I don’t find the subject particularly important to the spiritual journey. Moreover, I can’t even really say that I “believe” in them. Let me explain further.
Past Lives and Memories
The entire subject of past lives hinges upon one thing: memories. Many people remember the events of a life that, in the memory, occurred at some point in the past, sometimes even in a past unknown to modern history (like Atlantis). There have been some excellent books written on the subject, with some seemingly intriguing bits of evidence to indicate that indeed some people really can remember a past life.
But ask the following questions, especially if you can remember a past life: Was it your past life? Are you certain? Is there any way that you can ever know? Isn’t it just a memory, a thought, passing through your awareness? I find it equally compelling to explain a past life memory in this way:
Since consciousness is One, since that is the direct experience of someone who realizes the truth of their being, then that consciousness that is aware seemingly in them is also the same consciousness that is aware seemingly in everyone else and at every moment in time. The consciousness that is what I am is the consciousness that you are, that Jesus was, that Attila the Hun was, that Hammurabi was, that Louis XIV was. All the same. Remember, this Oneness of consciousness is the realization of awakening or enlightenment: everywhere you turn, same, same, same.
So, a past life memory would be simply the consciousness that seems to be Tom accessing the consciousness that seems to have been Genghis Khan (and no, I don’t have a memory like that, but it makes for a fun illustration!). It isn’t Tom’s memory. It’s just consciousness being One and recognizing aspects of form that used to be called Genghis. Get it? In a certain sense we could say that every past life is my past life. And also we could say none are.
Can Past Lives Help Us Realize the Truth?
It makes the whole subject of past life’s quite nebulous and vague and not all that useful to our journey. Sure they are fun, but what to do with it? Will it be of any real use to realizing the truth? Rather, they can become a source of spiritual pride (I was hanging out with Jesus!) and in fact be an barrier to learning the truth of who we are. We can get obsessed with who we might have been.
And if this is a possibility for past life memories, I think you can see why they won’t help us to understand what happens after the death of the body (as discussed in my last post). There may be a host of memories, whether they are mine or not, but do they really tell me what is going to happen when the body called Tom dies? No. At the absolute best, they could tell me about the death of the body of Attila or Genghis or Jesus. But Tom? No. So, you see why past lives don’t really do any good telling us what to expect after death.
Let me end on one of my favorite jokes about the afterlife to wrap-up these last few posts of death and reincarnation (if you are a bit too politically correct, you may want to pass-up this one):
A man dies and goes to Heaven where he is greeted by St. Peter. They begin a tour of the place, which turns out to be a gigantic building. As they walk, they come to many doors. At one door, St. Peter opens it, revealing a huge room filled with every food you could imagine and half naked women parading around. “Muslim Paradise” says St. Peter. At another door, the man is shown a large cathedral with many people on their knees praying. “Catholic saints,” says St. Peter. And on they walk, with St. Peter showing him room after room. After a bit, as they approach another door, St. Peter turns to the man and says, “Shhh…. Don’t say anything as we pass the next door.” After they pass, and have gone some distance, the man asks St. Peter why they had to be quiet. The response: “Oh, that was the Baptists. They think they’re the only ones here.”
And now you know what church my mother dragged me to when I was younger. Poor woman, she finally gave-up after 3 years of my annoying teenage protests. Ah, the Baptist Church and I were not meant to be, I’m afraid.
on August 6th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I am in complete agreement both about Baptists (I had to do my time in the Southern variety) and past lives not shedding any light on what happens when we die. But is it possible that certain of the collective memories we share could tell us something about why we’re proceeding in one way or another in this life?
An example (not of mine) would be someone who has the unconscious memory of death by fire is, in this life, inexplicably afraid of fire? As you said, it matters not if it really was their “own” past life. Does it help that person to overcome (or accept) the fear by knowing its source?
on August 6th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Past life memory and shared consciousness are two separate issues.
Souls do remember its past — whether the mind remembers or not. And all the past (and present) information is stored in Akashic Records.
How do I know? Because reading the Akashic Records is my job.
I think it is more important (or useful, at least) to understand the basic personality of the soul than remembering the specific lifetime. Knowing you were with Napoleon is entertaining, but how can you utilize the knowledge? But if you know the special skills and expertise of your soul, that can really help both in your spiritual growth and in more practical side of life.
When I do reading, I also check the various energetic blocks and restrictions. Another important knowledge.
But I see I’m talking too much about my work — I love it, I can’t help it — and so, before you start thinking I’m just spamming you, I will turn the mic back to you . . .
on August 6th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Hello Tom,
Have to say, I loved the joke. But truth be told religion is the easiest thing to find the humor, with all that is mystical, special and exclusive.
I think I agree that knowing the story of a past life probably not a big assistance as one lives a current life. Like you indicated it can be entertaining. However being unaware that past lives existed or not acknowledging that evolution seems harder for me to do at this point. Yet, the all is One notion has its validity too I suppose.
But like you’ve said in the what’s after death scenario, we won’t know until we get there. And finally can see what eternal really means. How energy not only blends into oneness but has the ability to have infinite levels of individuality. Not having been a Baptist, I’m not sure how I’ll feel when that all plays out.
on August 7th, 2008 at 2:54 am
I enjoyed this. Many of your thoughts echo my own. I’ll throw something else into the mix for you to ponder, as well.
Time is an illusion. It’s part of space, and space is part of the material realm. Spirit, which is beyond the material and therefore not subject to linear time. Therefore, there can be no such thing as “past” or “future” existence. To Spirit, everything is NOW. That would make lives actually simultaneous, though they are perceived through the material filter of linear time.
And if that’s not weird enough to think about, if, indeed, we are ALL God (Spirit/Brahman/Universal Consciousness/Whatever), then ALL lives are “ours”, anyway. It’s all just an infinitely complex exercise in God learning to know Godself, through an infinite number of filters and experiences. Remembering the life of, say, Queen Elizabeth I doesn’t necessarily mean anything when you consider that you are God and God was Queen Elizabeth the I, and every other person ever to have walked the planet…
I’m not asserting that any of the above is “right”, by the way. Only that it’s something very interesting to think about.
on August 7th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Then I must have been in Napelon’s army too, because I’m about 5″6 too
on August 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am
@Annie From my perspective, ANYTHING can and will be used to help us on the road to awakening. So, why not collective memories? They could be useful. But too often, they seem to get people stuck.
@Akemi Thanks for the comment. I’m really glad you brought up souls. For me, souls don’t exist, at least not in any way that most people usually mean the term. I don’t have a soul (and you wondered why I’m a such an evil guy!!). What I am IS the One consciousness that isn’t shared, it simply IS what we are.
Now, I don’t doubt that in some sense there is something “soul-like” just as their appears to be a mind that is “Akemi’s” associated with that body (which appears to be Akemi’s body). But there is no Akemi to possess these things. Just One awake, alive Life. Make sense? So, a soul is just like an individual mind: an illusion.
So, what then are you reading when you read Akashic Records for a soul? I really don’t know. Obviously it is a useful thing, obviously it helps people, and obviously you are reading something when you do a reading. But I can’t tell you what you are reading. But just like “personal development”, while obviously useful to lots of people, in fact there is no person to be developed. Just the One having the appearance as a person. But that still doesn’t make the person real.
Wow, Akemi, I’m really glad you raised the topic of souls. This is fun.
@Barbara One thing for certain, it is a wonderful mystery. I get an absolute kick out of each new discovery. I wonder what is next?
@CaterpillarWoman Hey, thanks for the comment. Glad to know that what I wrote mirrored your own thinking. I completely agree with your comments on time. Only ever present Now. So where is the “past” that my past live occurred in? Only Now. Very cool. Thanks.
@Per You too! You know, I think L’Empereur was even shorter. French men are on the short side anyway. First trip to Paris I was amazed at how many clothes I could buy off the rack. I’m sure someone is laughing right now, but if you are male, 5′6″ and not “husky” buying clothes in the typical mall is quite difficult. So, it’s only a 10 hour flight to Paris!
on August 7th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Well I’d better go to Paris then!
on August 7th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Well, here’s another one those intriguing topics!
Once, when I was a teenager, I sat down with a notebook and scribbled out various past life scenarios as a fun writing exercise. The life I had the most fun with was Ancient Rome.
I didn’t take it too seriously, yet speculating on past lives led me to becoming interested in history because the exercise helped me to develop an appreciation for how people lived in other times and that no matter the time period, we’re all having common human experiences.(And on a superficial note, I liked those fabulous Roman fashions–toga, toga!)
on August 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Hi Tom,
Well, there are many levels. Ultimately, we are all one and one with the divinity, and all separation is illusion. However, there are also individualities, and this is not bad at all. The divinity (or the Source) wanted to create this illusion of separation to experience itself more fully. Like there need to be women for men to realize their masculine nature. So the physical aspect is nothing to be despised — enjoy while we are here.
So on one level, individual souls exist, and it helps to understand our own soul.
Regarding what happens after death: I’m not going to write a whole post in this comment section, but let me just point out that there are people who know. Typically, they are not very afraid of death because deep down they do know death is only a transformation. These people may also encounter deceased people’s souls. This is one of the souls’ expertise I was talking about. And of course, many of them are in the closet due to fear of ostracism.
Light,
The beautiful magi (with attitude)
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Fascinating subject indeed. I fully agree with you Tom that past lives are not about the deeper truths. They are the past and so must be treated as such, just as the time when we were preteen.
However, on the journey, I found the subject quite illuminating. For example, I had this curious obligation for a period of time in my life to work for the Police. (I was not a typical employee) Many aspects of my life make much more sense with awareness of past lives. This can allow us to allow more. As Akemi observes, one also looses the fear of death after seeing how life simply moves on to new chapters. It’s true you cannot know your coming death by knowledge of the past but it’s grip on you is lost when you see there is nothing to fear.
You observe correctly that memory can be revisionist so we have to take it with a grain of salt. And recognize that its just more chapters of the same old story. If it’s real, it will grow stronger and more complete. It will also give us continuity and a broader picture of the flow of our path. What we have on our side and the lessons we have yet to learn. Also, the importance of a spiritual approach to life so we take best advantage of the time we have now.
Basically, they can give us context and clarity that can allow us to move past our own past and into what is. But it can also be another trap and excuse. See it as Tom reminds us as the past and we will move on.
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Dear Tom -
This is one of my favorite articles and an interest I have had for years.
I have had many déjà vu experiences which would lead me to believe that I had a past life in that experience. More than coincidence. Things I did not consciously know about the place or its history.
I was impressed and intrigued.
- and got involved with people who were obsessed with past lives. Went to many meetings with them. There were Indian chiefs, Kings and even people who thought they were one of the twelve Apostles.
I was nobody very important so I did not achieve great status in the groups.
- Suddenly, it occurred to me that even that if it was all true, they were so concentrated on what happened before, that they were not dealing with the life they had now. Only as it applied to past experiences.
So, I don’t discount any of it. But it makes more sense to me to deal with the complex situations I am finding myself in today. I’ll leave the past behind so I can handle the present.
Enough already!
They think we will have a major review after we leave here. I think I will wait for that.
If I can, I’ll get back to you.
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
The question of our own past vs lives of others. As Akemi notes, these are very different experiences. Both are available to us along the way. But our own past has an intimacy or connectedness not seen the same way with others. This may not be apparent at first. But as things clear, the flow of lives becomes obvious.
CaterpillarWoman raises another point its worth touching on. It’s very important to be clear what stage or perspective you are speaking from. For most of us, we are experiencing being in time and space. There is a past and future, and our past can bring us lessons. Being seen, we can let go of the baggage we have long carried.
As we progress down the path, the illusory nature of this past becomes seen and the “mesh” of connections we carry with others begins to collapse. When we let go in the present the past need for revenge, the motivation is lost and the action is undone. This actually changes history as the apparent past is a false causality, a dream one could say.
The past and future then collapse into the present. Then we see what CW mentions, all our lives concurrent, like having a thousand arms and heads (laughs). Then all lives collapse into the one life and we can flip through any life in any time or place. It is all One. Of course, how that is experienced by any given person varies.
Its useful to remember that ideas and concepts about are quite different from the experience of it. To say “I am One” is an interesting thing to think about but don’t mistake it for being.
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
One final point that can help understand if a “memory” is real or not. For one, it can be beyond anything we can possibly imagine and comes with a feel for the person at the time which can be quite different. But more importantly, it may not be a pleasant memory such as we might dream. Dying stupidly, doing something foul, or making what are now obviously bad choices are not fond to recall. We like to think of ourselves as good people, so it can be rude awakening to see we’ve struggled with that. All of us.
So don’t have the idea that past lives would be fun. Occasionally perhaps, but few of us were famous and rich. The past can bring us wisdom but also rude surprises. Tom’s example of being with Napoleon I’m sure was full of nasty politics, death, and well, you get the idea.
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Well, I need to bring up the “useful” part of past lives. Whether they are shared memories of a collective consciousness or “our” past lives, negative influences we engage with do continue to affect us in THIS lifetime.
You know those patterns that make us feel like we’re banging our heads against an invisible wall? The ones that can send us to therapy for years without resolution? Yup, past life issues more often than not. This is one thing I look at in my work - and clear.
I’m with Akemi that Souls are an aspect of the illusion of separation, but a necessary one, just like the physical body.
Blessings,
Andrea
on August 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
So much fun to get the conversation going! I had a feeling this subject would bring out some comments!
@Kirsten I love how your playing with the subject got you to see that all human experiences are common. Now or 2000 years ago, we are still humans. And I dig togas, too.
@Akemi Ah, I see where we are going to disagree some more. I don’t see any levels. There is just the One appearing as everything in the Universe. But what you and I are is still the One. No levels. As for death, I’m sorry again, but there just isn’t any way to know what you will experience after death. No one knows what they will experience in LIFE 5 years from now, let alone what will happen when the body ceases to function. It’s a mystery. It can’t help but be a mystery. All glimpses into the future are always incomplete at best.
@Davidya While you bring up a lot of interesting things about past lives, I think you made the point yourself that they are always in the past. But more importantly, whatever you are experiencing right now is happening RIGHT NOW. It is the only time you have. It really doesn’t matter whether something occurred last week, last year or last millennium, the experience of it is always now. Now. Which makes the past utterly irrelevant except to be seen for what it is: gone. So past in this lifetime or past in some other lifetime, it is still not here, now, available, alive. The past is dead. 100% dead.
@Corinne I’m glad you liked it. You’ve experienced the same feeling I’ve had at times. Past. Done. Gone. Let’s live now, shall we?
@Andrea I really do get the point your are making. To me, though, the key is what I was getting at with Davidya: whether my life is being effected by something from this life or a past life, what is it that is effecting me? A memory. A bit of psychological energy. That I am experiencing when? Now. And what am I going to do with the memory? The only obvious thing to do is drop it. Let it go. It is a dead thing, a thing from the past, gone. It is a bit of distorted energy passing through. Let it go on its way to be undone. And then be free. For right now, I am clearly not bound by the energy of that memory. I am not what was. I am what is. Now is the only time there is. And I am clearly not the memory.
Finally, for everyone: I think the point that I am most strongly wanting to raise in this discussion is one simple question: whose memory is it anyway? If you look within, and try to find the one who is remembering, what do you find? Do you find the person who “lived” two centuries ago? Do you find a soul? Do you find the person you think you are? What do you find when you seek out this past person? That, my friends, is the key.
on August 7th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Hi Tom,
I like your final question and I think … it doesn’t matter. But what DOES matter is consciousness. You replied back to me that the answer is to “drop it.” So true … but in order to do that, we need consciousness. Choice is what creates our experiences. We can’t choose to drop something if we have no way of naming it or recognizing it, no frame of reference.
So whatever we find when we look “back” at past lives, we have to be able to apply consciousness, which means we have to try and wrap our poor minds around it somehow. So we call it something, like “past lives,” hopefully with the understanding that naming it is just a tool so we can “drop” whatever it is that is affecting us. Nothing to get attached to … just a tool so that our mind can make a choice.
The frame of reference, in the end, doesn’t matter. It only matters that it allows us to apply consciousness and choice.
Blessings,
Andrea
on August 8th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Corrine observes what I would call a common false flag. Some pleasant idea of being famous in the past is playing with the dream, it is not making the past conscious and releasing what we’ve been carrying.
@Tom - the memory question is an interesting point. As Sheldrake’s research has demonstrated, memories are not stored “inside” but rather in the broader field. He calls it Morphic fields. What Akemi calls the Akashic records. “Akasha” means Space btw.
We have to be straight about perspective again here. If we are talking about an experience of time, then there is a past and future, it is reality. When we are living fully in the now, then past and future still exist, only now they are not separate but rather concurrent. The now includes the past. The One is always inclusive. Just as the person ceases to exist as a separate entity, so too time continues but not as separate. When we wake up from the dream, the dream continues, we are simply not lost to it anymore.
Do you find a soul? Yes. And that is the continuity that is there in your own lives and not of others. Jiva is the word they use in India. There is an actual sutra or thread that runs through the lives that can be followed. Soul is what one might describe as a wave on the ocean of being. As the soul evolves, it regains its relationship with the whole, but the wave continues. It is simply not lost to the One.
It is very much like remembering how things were 30 years ago, only its 150, or 13,500. The you is there but at an earlier time, with a different view. And we are experiencing it from where we are now. We can never “go back”, just as we can never really remember what puberty was like.
I think the variation in experience comes up because some step into the awareness after the reconnection, some before. So some see the separation rejoining, some see it never was other. The idea of soul then seems meaningless.
You might find it interesting to study the idea of Smriti. This means memory, but not in the sense of what you did yesterday but rather in the sense that everything is thought into existence. It is only memory. Not just past lives but everything you experience has already happened - thought is always a lag behind so is no longer now. It is all a memory. A memory of a dream. (laughs)
blah blah blah (laughs)
on August 8th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Well, I do happen to have a number of apparent other life memories (I say “other” because of the whole “time doesn’t really exist” thing). A few of them appear to shed some light about some aspects of this life. One of them, once I had the memory, actually caused a chronic pain issue to resolve itself (yes, really, and I’m as surprised about that as anyone!).
I don’t know what it means, or if it means anything at all. It’s very interesting, yes. It’s quite fascinating to think that in some past life I was a Buddhist monk (and my husband in this life was a fellow monk), or that I was a Catholic nun somewhere in Europe (hard to tell the year; the inside of a convent and the clothes look just the same for centuries and centuries) and the mother I have in this life (from whom I am long estranged for some very good reasons) was the Mother Superior there and basically drove me to an early and pointless death because I couldn’t conform to her views of how things should be. I have other apparent past life memories, as well, many of them quite unpleasant, actually.
Are these “my” lives? I don’t know. The more I think about it, the more I think maybe it doesn’t actually matter that much. If I’m having apparent memories of these lives, and the remembering is helpful (and sometimes it actually is), then that’s fine. Perhaps it was “me” or some part of “me”. I do think that the illusion of separation can continue well after death, so, well, maybe. A “soul” that goes through many lives would provide God with an absolutely and utterly unique perspective, even more so than a single lifetime, and if the purpose is for God to explore Godself, well, that seems like a good way to do it.
Ultimately, I don’t know that it really matters all that much. I have these spontaneous memories from time to time, I acknowledge them, I process them as best I can, and I file them away. If I’m helped by them, hey, fantastic! And if not, well, that’s okay, too.
I don’t think it’s actually all that important, in most cases. Well, except for that one apparent other life memory that led to the relief of a longterm chronic pain condition that had no other known cause or cure…
on August 8th, 2008 at 2:13 am
@CW - I think your approach is perfect. It’s like remembering some old memory from when we were younger. It can add some context or understanding to what’s in our lives now. It can allow us to resolve old baggage. But it is still the past and it doesn’t have deep meaning, it doesn’t matter a ton.
That approach sees you through the value without being lost to what was.
on August 8th, 2008 at 2:56 am
I have a story to relate.
I was having a conversation with God and something made me think of how God thinks of time. So I asked, “How long is a human life in relative time to you?”
God said, “In relative time, a human life is about as long as a minute to me.”
We talked some more and then I had a brilliant idea. I made a request to God, “God, make me enlightened so I can understand everything spiritual and know what all people are talking about.”
God replied, “Just a minute.”
on August 8th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Tom,
My first read of a post on your site and I found it very interesting. Everything this side of ultimate reality is necessarily subjective so I’m not concerned with who’s right or who’s wrong, but I found your post a fresh new way (for me) of combining the notion of past lives with the oneness of consciousness. Never thought about it that way before but I find the concept useful.
@ Connie: Your comment “they were so concentrated on what happened before, that they were not dealing with the life they had now….But it makes more sense to me to deal with the complex situations I am finding myself in today. I’ll leave the past behind so I can handle the present.” Excellent point!
on August 8th, 2008 at 10:14 am
You know, honestly, I feel that every one single one of you is absolutely right!
on August 8th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Well, I linked to this post from my blog post so that I can have my own line of discussion there, but I just have to say to
Harold,
Our divinity has a great sense of humor,huh?!
on August 8th, 2008 at 11:42 am
@Everyone Too much fun! I seem to have the energies flowing. I’m glad most of us seem to agree on one key point: right now is where it is at. That’s really the only time we have. When we see past all of our thoughts, memories, etc, then we know true freedom
@Ken Glad to have your comments. Welcome.
@Harold You had me laughing. I love your comments, Harold.
on August 8th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
@Akemi
This is off topic but your blog is down - over quota. Seems all the traffic from Tom has made you too popular.
on August 8th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Davidya,
Haha. . .over quota? Really? I wish!
It loads properly for me now. Please come back ^_^
on August 10th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I believe that we choose to live our lives on “earth” to experience a sort of independence from “oneness”. A chance to be exposed to natural law and personal responsibility, and feel the effects of it as an individual. However, I believe that “oneness” is something we work our way towards through many levels of life experiences. Crossing to the next plane doesn’t automatically bring us a sense of merging into “oneness”. Closer to it, yes. Each experience through the “higer vibrations” will bring us closer to it.
We retain our personality into the next level - and from that new vantage point can see our connection to each of our past experiences. They all play a part in who we are today. Since I believe that is true, I don’t feel the need to investigate “who I’ve been” - I’m at peace with the knowledge that I’ve worked my way to who I am now.
on August 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
@Anne Thanks for the comment. Interesting how you said we are trying to experience a sort of independence from “oneness”. Is that possible? Can we ever not be One? And yet, here we seem to be.
on August 10th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Yeah, another cool post Tom.
I’ve actually started spontaneously remembering my past lives which is interesting because it only happened once I started totally letting go of any importance to the past or any thought. It’s like once you’re no longer interested in them, you finally remember them.
Past lives are just as real as this life now, just a shift in awareness through time and space. It seems like despite the underlying Oneness, there is still an individualization of the one soul into infinite souls, each of which have their own personal karma and level of consciousness which carries over from lifetime to lifetime.
on August 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
@Ariel I’m glad you liked the article. Cool that you are remembering past lives. I bet that is fun. You said in your comment: “Past lives are just as real as this life now.” That is quite likely true. But the real question is, How real is this life now?
on August 10th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I wonder why there is such importance placed on so called past lives? Is it a matter of believing we can learn something from what has come before? Or does one think there is something from the past life that will enable one to lead a better, higher life? I really do not see the importance. Besides, whether it is the past, or just a memory, there is no difference between the two.
There may be some trouble in the mind, because the tendency may be for one to believe the memories are coming from outside of the self. Or that it was another self that has had the memory. “Me in a past life. I was Napoleon’s gardener, or Constantine’s chief eunuch,” or whatever it happens to be.
Where is the ME that is having all of these memories? Where is the ME that at one time prayed to Zeus? Where is the ME that was killed in Thermopylae? This is not at all difficult to see. I just wonder how far others may take it.
Are they past lives, or are they memories? And if the only way one can know past lives is through memory, how can anyone trust it to be true? Does this make any sense to you?
Whether there are, or are not, past lives, really does not matter. These memories, these past lives, have not set humanity free from selfish struggles, endless greed, or the suffering we have all endured.
Anyway, what would I do with a past life? Believe it, make it into a system, follow it, use it as a lens to see this world we are all currently living in? What would be the point of that? I would just be living mechanically, following a life that has been well-mined and set-up before hand.
It cannot reach this organism. It will find out on its own.
on August 10th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
I’m not sure how I missed the discussion here last week but past life memories is a topic that is of interest to me. Like Caterpillar Woman, I have a number of memories. Most surfaced often in meditation or near-meditation.
In fact, I wrote about one that I had, 2 days prior to your post…read it here…
http://www.attractionmindmap.com/raise-awareness-release-guilt/
I don’t seek to have past life memories. They arise from the subconsious to the conscious, highlighting negative emotions I need to clear.
I was a sceptic when I first had these memories. It was easy to think that my imagination was playing a trick on me. However, after awhile, the answer just came from within: oh yes…that is me alright in a previous life. Also, the emotions are almost always so intense that I’d end up sobbing even before releasing whether using EFT or the Sedona Method. I’m not sure how I can possibly “fake” all the tears, if the “images” or “visions” have not been somewhat real.
The past is the past. It is important to let it go and move on. If there is any energetic imprints, arising out of traumas in the past, that are blocking our paths to spiritual growth, then it is in our best interest to remove them.
on August 10th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
@Takuin
Personally, I think the interest is a blend of things. The woo woo of esoteric. The idea we have a hidden past. And the idea that the past may explain the oddness of the present.
So to a large extend its simple curiosity. But sometimes people may seek meaning in the past.
Like Ariel, I simply started to remember stuff that gradually became more complete. I didn’t seek it out, though my ex was very interested. I found that it did explain a few of the curiosities of my life and the fear of death left. As Akemi observed, sometimes people can resolve deep stuff when its source is seen. When large spans of time are seen, the ebb and flow of awareness also becomes clear.
But, really these are all secondary. Something can be learned. The relative truth can often be verified. But it also may simply be yet another layer to the onion of illusion.
on August 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Just finished reading the story of Lila in the Yog Vasishta. It covers the nature of past lives, death and rebirth. For those who might be interested, I summarized it on a new post:
http://in2deep.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/whats-after-and-before/
on August 12th, 2008 at 7:21 am
@Takuin Excellent questions and comments. You hit the nail on the head. Over and over, the question must be, “whose past life?” That’s why I tossed out my alternative thoughts on the subject. There’s just no ME to have a past life. When all is said and done, a past life memory is a MEMORY, is swirling energy in a human brain and energy field. The memory is an experience, but the events are not. They are not real, they are dead, and they are in the past.
In the end, a past life memory is nothing more than a fancy movie playing inside our “minds.” But it is pure cinema. Just of the internal kind. Some people have Woody Allen script theirs, other George Lucas. And some have David Lynch or Tim Burton (ouch!!). Even if the memory is so real you can almost taste it, ask the following question: who care? Literally, who is the one that cares? There’s the resolution.
@Evelyn I’m glad you enjoy the topic. While I don’t consider past lives to be “real,” I definitely think we can gain from the experience. Just like we can gain from remembering something that “happened” in this life. All of it is a perfect opportunity to let it go. See through it. Let the energy of the memory unhook as it were. When we see through and let go, all is well.
on August 12th, 2008 at 9:52 am
That it, Tom. The exact word - unhook. By seeing it, we unhook its ‘latch’ on our perspective of the world, let go the trash. When enough is unhooked, the mesh of the past collapses and only the moment remains.
on August 13th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Tom, thank you for being so relentless on the “Who is the one experiencing XYZ” inquiry. Reading your posts even in the comments keeps bringing up the recognition of the false self… a feeling the ego doesn’t like.
on August 15th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
I agree with Akemi that past life memory and shared consciousness are two separate issues.
The concept of One does not exclude the concept of unique souls with their own memories of past lives. It is similar to fingers on a hand, each have their own story yet they are part of the whole.
on August 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am
@Bengt You are quite correct: the concept of One does not exclude a concept called unique souls. However, in my experience, that is just a concept that doesn’t match experience. When you know yourself as the One, then you realize that there are no unique souls. Just one consciousness, experiencing itself as Tom, as Bengt, as George Bush, as the Buddha. It expresses itself as bodies, worlds, etc., but that is all.
on August 17th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Using the word concept made my comment too soft..
“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, in the expert’s mind there are few.”
I am not an expert. My own experiences of oneness, to know yourself as (part of) the One, are different from yours. It allows for souls and past lives.
on August 17th, 2008 at 1:44 am
The key thing to realize about Oneness - it is inclusive. It includes everything - all perspectives, all time, all space, all expressions, all beings. Indeed, the entire universe is but a pearl on the necklace of Brahm.
I would suggest that both Tom and Bengt are correct. If we can experience it, it is an aspect of the One. We can look upon ourselves and see one consciousness flowing through all beings. We can look again and see all beings, each with a past, present and future and unique experience, all within the one. We could say they are just different resolutions or levels of detail.
In the One, you are an individual expression, you are an expression of the whole, and you are the whole expressing through all individuals. You are the doer, the vessel, and the creator. You are the seer and the seen. The free will and the determinism.
You are the silence and light, you are the evil and darkness. You are life itself, moving in all things.
There is no paradox. It is inclusiveness alone.
on August 17th, 2008 at 10:45 am
@Bengt I am not an expert either. Actually, i love your quotation: the less we know, the more expert we become. I realize more and more how little I know.
@Davidya Ah, in one sense I agree with you entirely: if we can experience it, then it IS an aspect of the One. There is nothing outside of the One. And yet…. is the One the sum of its experiences? Is it beyond them in some way? And what am I? Am I merely those experiences? Or is what I am beyond all those aspects. Sure, I look out, and I can see individuals. I suspect if I could “see” souls, I would look out and see that, too. I also don’t doubt there is some funky “other dimensional” stuff that plays out after death. But all are experiences. They happen in the Silence, but they are not the whole of the Silence.
Always, always, always, we come back to the importance of “what am I?” No wonder Ramana had no teaching other than that. Until that is resolved, then things like past lives are, for most people, just a distraction. Past lives at best are just an experience happening in the One. But until you know yourself as the One, then what’s the point?
The One is all inclusive, true. But knowing yourself as That is where the spiritual rubber meets the road.
on August 18th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Hi Tom
To say the One is inclusive does not mean it is not more than it includes. Do you see how you can get the sense of One, then the mind steps in and separates?
With first awakening, there is a sense of an internal Oneness, the Self, unbroken. But this Oneness is inclusive of the Self but not the not-Self. It takes time before the One includes the many. Then the question ‘What am I?’ is better asked ‘What am I Not?’
I completely agree with your point about other stuff being distractions. Go for the source, its the key to everything else. But its equally valid to observe that stuff will come up on the road. To me, its better to have an understanding or context. Without, that there will be a tendency to reject or resist. And that can be as much a barrier as getting side-tracked. So don’t worry too much about past lives, but if they come up, don’t worry. (laughs)
Really, its a balancing act and we need to learn new approaches for life to find our roots.
on August 25th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Tom,
This is a terrific site…glad I got here.
Meanwhile, ummm, I have some FABULOUS news! According to my guides and angels, my ex-husband WAS Napoleon. They have consistently said he was. He’s very short.
We won’t mention the fact that my full name is JOSEPHINE, will we?
All the best!
on August 26th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Oh, dear, Jody… You do know that Napoleon divorced his Josephine… ? Better luck this time around!
on August 26th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Dear “Caterpillar Woman”: NO FEAR…I divorced him this time around….(truly). Almost weird….
on August 26th, 2008 at 10:32 am
@Jody Hey, I must have known your ex, then. How cool is that? LOL Is he shorter than 5′6″? If so, I’m taller than my old boss. I think it is too funny that you are Josephine! Thanks for the comment and visiting. Glad you like the site. I’ll have to take a peak over at yours. Namaste.
@Caterpillar I think Napoleon struck twice. LOL
on August 26th, 2008 at 10:37 am
@Jody Way to go, Josephine! You know, the French really love Napoleon. He is always portrayed in a negative light in history books outside of France, but not in France. But what an egomaniac! Jody, I hope your Napoleon was a bit better.
on August 26th, 2008 at 10:44 am
He is, frankly, quite Napoleonic: brilliant, intellectual, bold, and, ultimately, shy. We’re still friends, and he will always be, for me, a fascinating person. Even if I didn’t think he was healthy for me.
I really think he was Napoleon. It fits. The important thing is that he learns and grows in this life, and I really believe he is. We move on, life after life….
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