For myself, I find such quotes often used obnoxiously. Right up there with “Anyone who says they’re enlightened…” If no one will speak of it, how are we to understand the path? This is just mind making right and wrong.

Semantically for example, is the use of the word ego. One may use it to describe the individual, the identity and/or the idea of being separate. The last is the more common use and that idea does die with self-realization. So in that use, there is “ego death”. But there is, as your quote suggested, often ego generated concepts that remain to be seen through afterwards.

Beneath that is emotional drivers of separateness. Beneath that the core identity, a fear driven sense of me – not an idea of being separate, only a fear, a fear that originally drove the idea. Deeper still is a kind of grasping that leads to the above. Much of this is sub-conscious until after self-realization.

Realization is another word with variants. There is intellectual realization of a deeper self. There is experiential realization that I am That. And there is the actual becoming.

If the ego sense of separateness remains, one must ask if the realization is true. If the sense of I or being has not switched, this is not true self-realization. That said, as Adyashanti so clearly reviews, it is common for the mind to come back for a time after realization – a sort of power struggle. Ego has not returned but it may try or seem to. Depends on how much house cleaning has occurred prior. But once the switch has taken place, now the person is the observer of this drama and the ego can never be restored.

To me, fundamentalism is in absolutes – this way is the only way. Actually there is one reality but any number of ways to see the path.

You may consider it fundamentalism but ask yourself then why so many of histories teachers speak of this ego death. It seems by your closing that you are equating ego with individuality. The value of the second does indeed continue for some time, until the increment is fully merged in oneness. But this is not the same as what most people use for ‘ego’. Perhaps that is where there is disagreement.

Am “I” participating in this blog? No. Some value of Self is having a conversation with itself through an apparent medium called Tom’s blog. Keep in mind that it’s all illusion – not just the blog, but your ideas and your sense of doing. We step out of those illusions bit by bit. Even of the dream of God.

After all, as the saying goes:

“Those who speak, do not know. Those who know, do not speak.”

Realization, enlightenment, nirvana, whatever your word is, is the transcendence of the I, the separate self. But that does not eliminate the appearance of their being a separate self.

You can still choose to “play the game” of life. If you choose to play that game, and pretend that there is a self, then you still might want to break limiting beliefs of the self.

That’s really what I meant in my article, but neglected to elaborate on further.

There are some people that believe after awakening, the ego is completely shattered, and dissolves completely. I would call these, fundamentalist enlightenment seekers.

In reality, I think the ego is the vehicle for human consciousness, is it not? The ego is not obliterated upon enlightenment, but is transcended and included. After that transcendence, you see through the illusion of beliefs. You see that all beliefs come from the self. But you can still choose to participate in the illusion. After all, isn’t that what we’re all doing right now, conversing on this blog? =)

You will also find that different stages of the path often require emphasis on different aspects. First awakening is well helped by doing/ elbow grease, growth of the heart by devotion, and oneness by gyan. So yes, union is through realization. But we will not find God realization or unity until we have self-realization.

Knowledge should serve as a framework or guidepost. But it is never black and white nor absolute.

Perhaps more splitting hairs but if we see the path clearly, we will not be distracted by it so much.

Pleasure having you here. I hope to see you around some more. Namaste.

@Davidya I think I deserve a purple heart for getting hit my ego shrapnel!!! This week has been rough!

@Andrea Thanks! I’m always glad to have your comments. Yes, I love the joyful curiosity idea.

(And here I am splitting hairs.)

My experience is that realization is always accessible, for it is not separate from me. My choice in how and when I access it, however, is very much clouded by samskaras. And these samskaras can take some elbow grease to purify.

It seems you’re on a jnana yoga path, union through realization, and that’s great. In fact, the story of the Gita tells us it’s the most direct path to egolessness. But it’s certainly not the only way nor the best for every person. For me, pain and love, in that order, have been much greater ego solvents. And for many others, faith.

Great site, my first visit here.

The whole point that this is an exercise in better expounding on what is, beneath the mind, is lost. But there is beauty in trying for we are bringing the subtle to light, expressing what is. And that alone is what is.

For myself, I refer to “ego shrapnel” as there are often corollary beliefs that are not initially cleared. They simply need to be seen and released. As you put it “Everything must be seen through.” So there is some ‘work’ to be done but not what I’d describe as “hard” – though what can be seen sometimes can take one aback. Did I really think that??

The ego is not the only thing to clear. It is simply the mental expression of the person. Deeper is the core identity Adya talks about, driven by sub-conscious fear. And deeper still the grasping of the root when it is not connected to the whole. So there are usually some further layers to uncover.

Love your closing comment about new flavor and savor. I agree.

What I really remember about the comments were the sheer amount of those agreeing. That was very interesting to me.

There were many popular and oft repeated words in that piece (as more so in the comments), if I remember correctly. Such as cosmic belief, life is a dream, agreements, the self awakening to itself, and so on. But this can be a terrible problem. Reading about all of these things on awakening, memorizing, then spewing out facts on command has nothing to do with liberation.

I don’t mean this to sound harsh, and I think, Tom, you understand the spirit in which this is said. But these kinds of phrases are best left to the fan-boys; for the ones that have not the seriousness to see what is here for themselves.

Accept repeat, accept repeat, accept repeat. Is this what we are left with in all our time on this earth?

I am not saying any of this is wrong, or that it should be another way. You can probably get into this quickly and more eloquently than I have, Tom.

I also think that the idea of “hard work” can be replaced with joyful curiosity – what else am “I” not?

Blessings,
Andrea

“Thoughts might still arise, but they cannot be believed again.”

That’s what “I” have experienced during temporary awakenings as well. The mind may think thoughts, but they’re not identified with in any way or believed to be true. They simply do their thing, the same way the world continues to “exist” around the body.

It seems like from the state of realization, there is a complete and total disidentification with a personal self. Instead, there is the recognition of one’s true nature as the One and the All.