What Happens When An Awakened One Dies?
Written on July 31, 2008 by Tom Stine
A reader sent me the following questions:
Something I have never quite understood is that after we come to this realization of the one self that we are not our [the] body or the mind or the thoughts, then we see the body die what then? And what is the difference in the death of a realized one and a unrealized person?
What happens when the body dies? That is a question that has plagued mortal man from the earliest days. So much of religion is basically an attempt to answer that question, with enough theories of heavens and hells to keep us debating for the rest of our lives.
So let me start by saying what seems obvious to me: I don’t know what happens after the body dies. And neither does anyone else. If you say, “well, we go to _________ after death,” or tell me about other dimensions, etc., I’m going to ask you a very simple question: How do you know? Have you died and then experienced these things? No, of course you haven’t. So death is as yet a mystery to you. (As for past lives, let me write a follow-up article to deal with them.)
Even if you’ve had a near death experience, all you can do is tell me about that particular experience, but not the full experience of death (notice they are called near death experiences). There is absolutely no way to know what happens after the body dies until it actually dies and you find out.
Observations about death and consciousness
That said, we can make a few interesting observations, though, about what might happen after death if you have realized the truth about what you are, namely the One.
1. When you realize that you are not the mind, the body, thoughts, the ego, etc., you realize that the awareness (or consciousness) that you are, the “you” that is looking out of your body’s eyes, is the same awareness looking out of everyone else’s eyes. And the same fundamental beingness that is the house you live in, the Earth you are standing on, the sky, the stars, your thoughts, others’ thoughts, the very fabric of reality. All One, all the same, all conscious, all aware.
2. When the body dies, and the thoughts in it die, and when the energy contained in it dissipates, and everything ceases, what happens to the awareness contained within it? Ah, trick question, for the awareness/consciousness is not contained within it! We are so used to feeling “trapped” in the body that we think we are actually trapped in a body. But we are not. What I am is the beingness that is Everything. And this beingness, this conscious awareness contains the body.
Look-up from your computer right now and look around the room. Is not your body contained in the room you are in? Isn’t it a part of the room? And the room, isn’t it a part of the building? And the city or town in which the building exists? And planet Earth? And so on until we get that this body is contained in the Universe as a whole? And you are the Universe. The awake, aware, conscious, alive Wholeness of existence, the totality of the Universe (and so much more), that is what you are. So, the body is actually contained in you. You realize this fact, too, upon awakening.
3. So, when the body dies, the conscious awareness that appeared to be within it doesn’t go anywhere, for nothing at all has been lost to the Universe. It has merely started to change form. But the consciousness itself is still right where it was before: everywhere! Nothing leaves, dissipates, disappears, or goes anywhere. The One is still ever present Oneness.
4. As for what awareness/consciousness that formerly identified as Tom experiences at death, I have no idea, and as mentioned before, neither does anyone else. This is still true whether you are “realized” or not.
What’s the difference between the death of the realized and unrealized?
And finally, let me answer the last question: “And what is the difference in the death of a realized one and a unrealized person?” I believe it was Sailor Bob Adamson who said, “The only difference between someone who has realized the truth and someone who hasn’t is that the realized one knows that there is no difference.” Once you realize the truth, you don’t know any differences.
While other people will still look different to you, have different color hair, wear different clothes, etc., you will have no awareness that any of that matters. They will still be what you are. So at death, how can there be any difference? To the realized one, whatever is experienced at death is experienced by every aspect of consciousness. He knows himself to be that consciousness, so nothing to him has changed. The form has changed, but nothing else. Everything is still everything. Oneness is still One.
And for the unrealized one? Again, it is impossible to say. You will simply have to die to find out what happens. I know this answer won’t make a lot of people happy, and it would ruin sales of lots of books if it were widely accepted as the truth that it is. But it is still the truth. We can argue until the cows come home, but it won’t matter. You can’t know death of the body until it dies. And then you will discover what happens next.
Namaste….. Tom
on July 31st, 2008 at 9:43 pm
I sometimes think of my time in this life as a raindrop falling to the ocean. When I hit the sea, that’s death of my body. Eventually I evaporate, nestle into a cloud, and do it all again in a different raindrop. I like viewing this life as fleeting, a drop in the bucket (pun intended). It reminds my ego to shut the hell up. I hope that unrealized persons such as myself become fully realized when they hit the ocean, and then forget again as the sky prepares to spit us out.
Speaking of my ego, I don’t think there’s another blog where I would make such a weird comment. Thanks for creating a safe space for deep thoughts, Tom.
on August 1st, 2008 at 12:10 pm
A fascinating question, all the more fascinating because no, we don’t really know what happens–until it happens.
In the West, we take a rationalistic stance that nothing happens, consciousness ends with life. Yet in Tibetan Buddhism, there is the manual that guides a soul through the bardo, and if the soul doesn’t see the Clear Light for what it is, then it heads back to incarnated life. Two very different theories.
Death is the ultimate mystery, and acknowledgment of our mortality can bring new energy and meaning to life.
on August 1st, 2008 at 12:36 pm
@Annie I’m glad you feel safe here to leave comments that might seem a bit “weird.” Believe me, from all that has happened to me over the past few years, I don’t see anything as weird anymore. This whole process is so out of the ordinary of most people’s lives that it is a bit mind-blowing. As it should be!
And I love your comment!
@Kirsten I love your comment. No getting around it, we just can’t know. But I still love all the theories. The Western scientific view is, though, kinda boring.
Sure, there may absolutely NOTHING, but that’s no fun.
on August 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I think you hit the nail on the head. What happens? No-thing.
on August 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
@Jonathan Excellent! That’s it exactly: NO-THING.
on August 2nd, 2008 at 9:23 am
And the funny thing Tom is that none of us will be around to write a book or give a speech about what it’s like to die because once we’re gone, that’s it!
From time to time I find myself wondering what happens to my mind when I am called home. It’s a fascinating subject b/c like you said, no one has the answer to this mysterious question. I try to imagine what I’d be thinking of feeling after the body dies. Will I still be a “thinking” being or will it be different?
Will I communicate the way I do now or will that also be different?
See? I’m fascinated with this. Hmmmm……. What a huge mystery! Wonder what Randy Pausch is doing now that he’s died?
on August 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
A fascinating subject and I agree – what happens to you, you have no idea or only the most general. Even if you ‘know the future’, how it plays out is always a surprise.
In the traditions of India, there is a big difference between death of the awake and the not yet awake. As Kirsten mentions similarly in Tibet, the awake person is said to enter MahaSamadhi. Essentially like a very deep meditation. I know one person who has done this and he had very powerful darshan after death.
The unawake are still trapped in their stories, so they drop the body but retain the ego sense and are obliged to continue through further experiences.
It is further said that once you awake, if you have not achieved full enlightenment/Unity, you will do so at death. And that’s where we get into the variations. There are the awake who stick around or return, the ones who take on “senior” roles, and so forth. That brings us back to your point – you don’t know until it’s now.
There is a further point it’s worthwhile making. When you “pass on” you in effect change dreams. You shift from the dream of the world to the dream of the afterlife. What that is for you varies by person and ’soul group’. This is why near death experiences have commonality but the scenery can be quite different.
Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about past lives.
on August 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
@Stephen
What someone is doing after they die could never even be guessed at. It’s like running into someone you haven’t seen in 20 years. Sometimes, they’re about the same. But often, their life is completely different. How they were when you knew them has more to do with what they were working with then than where they are now.
Will you still be thinking? As long as you are in form. Form is structured in thought so if you have a form (subtle or otherwise), you’ll be thinking. But not likely about the same things (laughs)
on August 2nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
What happens when they die? Well, that presupposes that there is such a state as “awakened” or is that just a given?
I love the neo-advaitist platitudes, “if your are not a body…what dies?” as the exalted one scratches his butt I just want to shout, “if you’re not a body then why ya scratchin your arse so hard!” (just a little levity folks, just ignore the unenlightened guy in the corner)
So if awakening is such a big deal, why are so many awakened ones dying from disease like the rest of us? If awakening is transcending the body, why is the exalted one riddled with cancer and the attached pain? Seems like the body won that bet! (but I thought he said that he was not a body, so does that mean the body has taken on a life of its own and has thus transcended the mind?)
I seem to feel we need a complete ‘belief system’ overhaul with regard to this ‘awakening’ stuff and all the lineage and textual teachings we have followed through the centuries. What if the point is to realize that you are a body and a mind and all your thoughts and, yes, even your ego!? And the fact that we keep trying NOT to Be what we are, keeps us from Being what we’re supposed to Be, which of course is what we are.
Not that I don’t believe that we can Be more than we think we are, yet by asserting that we are ‘less than,’ requiring we seek ‘more than,’ we may persist in what we thought we were in the first place.
Ha! I love this sheit!
Thanks for provoking my unawakened mind!
mike S
on August 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
@Mike
Actually, Mike, the point is to first realize we are a body and mind, separate. That’s part of normal human development, beginning with the baby’s pulling away from the mother and the ‘terrible two’s’. The trouble is, we get stuck in that paradigm. Awakening is simply growing forward into a larger paradigm. There’s about 7 stages, depending on how you choose to divide up the process. We have typically gotten stuck at about the 3rd.
What awakens is the awareness within. The body is still the body and still has it’s issues. That does not change, although as we stop resisting, we do stop producing more trash to deal with later. The “person” that expresses through the body also does not depart, although it often changes somewhat.
People lay all kinds of ideas on “enlightenment”, expecting an awake person to be perfect and live forever. In a way that’s true, but it’s not the body that is perfect or lives forever, it is awareness that reaches that.
Death and disease are the nature of the body. But if you are no longer the body, is that such a big deal? It simply is what it is.
You have to remind yourself here that although we may debate certain points, awakening is not a point of debate as it is a reality for many, not a concept. What form it takes is the surprise.
on August 2nd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Fascinating post, Tom! I personally have often said that I would like to experience death as consciously as possible. I’m very curious about it. I mean, none of us remember birth, and what it was like for the Soul to merge with the physical body. Maybe that’s for the sake of the illusion of separation we’ve all agreed to play within. But I’m sure it will be an incredible experience …
Blessings,
Andrea
on August 3rd, 2008 at 5:51 am
@Davidya:
You’re probably right we’d not be thinking about the same things in the afterlife (I’m laughing too).
Such a fascinating subject.
on August 3rd, 2008 at 7:01 am
Davidya,
Certainly true that there is no need to realize our separation as body and mind, since “that’s part of normal human development.” Yet, then we get to a point in that “development” where we choose a path to ‘enlightenment’ which results in our living in judgment of the body-mind organism. As we press down into it, so as to transcend out of it, this tends to judge it as unworthy. The paradox: To be more than you ARE, all of what you ARE needs to be accounted for and LOVED.
Great Discussion!
Thanks,
mike S
on August 4th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
To all my readers: you guys are amazing! I take a breather from the comments, and off you all go without me. Very cool!
@Stephen You are right! I guess I could “return” and give a lecture. But who would believe me? If I could get on Oprah…..
@Davidya It probably is the case that whether awake or not there are further experiences in store when this body is dead. I agree, the dream changes. But we can never know. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe something. Is it just me, or do you, too, doubt it will be “Heaven” with St Peter and God on his throne?
@Mike Awake ones dying of disease… A great question. Davidya answered it perfectly. If you don’t care about your body any more, if you see it simply as a vehicle to get around the world, then letting it die of cancer isn’t a big deal. If your 15 y.o. Chevy starts burning oil, you don’t “heal” it. You junk it. It’s a beat up Chevy, for crying out loud! At one point my body may have been BMWish, but I suspect when I’m like my 93 y.o. grandmother, it will be more like a junker Chevy.
@Andrea Thanks! I think it will be an incredible experience, too. I can actually see myself welcoming it, curious to know what comes next. Cool, huh?
@Mike I get your new point. There is a subtle mistake that so many people make on the journey: they seek to TRANSCEND the body. But you see it truly: you instead love it for what it is. You drop your identity out of it, but you still find yourself experiencing the world through it. All that is lost is identity, nothing more. And that is more than enough! It is everything!
on August 4th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
@Mike
What happens in any stage of growth is a period of disintegration, a clearing of the old to make way for the new. In small changes, this can be a short bit of disconnect, then an opening, integration, and settling into a new balance. In a larger scale change, the process is the same but it takes place over a longer period.
The typical 4th stage could be called the Seeker or Transcendent step. Because we are so long invested in the ego, the blossoming of a deeper sense of being and experience of transcendent reality is often set in contrast to the ego’s attempt to stay the course. The result is a period of paradox, with the ego judging laid on to the inner moments of peace. The lesson of this period is to be with what is. To simply allow. To stop holding.
As one awakens and enters the 5th stage, some of the same conflict can arise as the ego may try falsely to reassert itself. The battle is now lost, but if we give it attention, the remains can hang around for a bit. More allowing is the key.
A concurrent process generally associated with the 6th stage is the opening of the heart. This is where the Love you mention arises. Before we can truly Love, we have to learn allowing. When we can be OK with what is, then the perfection of it begins to dawn and we can learn to Love it as it is.
That Love is the bridge to Unity or Oneness. As may be obvious by now, this idea of stages is a framework to understand the context of experience and the most useful approach. But it’s not all tidy or orderly for any given person. For example, some don’t see a true heart opening until close to Unity. Some see it, and feel it, before they awaken. Its a process that expresses itself the best way it can given the person and the circumstance of the whole. We all tread the same path but experience it uniquely. And really, that’s the point of the exercise.
on August 4th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
@Tom
we were responding concurrently. (laughs) Your second reply to Mike is more specific to his point. I went broad.
I would not say never know. Never say never. I would say we can know but because it is not now, it is always different from what we thought. Remember that the past and the future are only now. When time fully collapses into the present (as it already is), all time, then all persons are in the moment. So all of it is available now. But then we know it as a false causality, so the only value is amusement. The play goes on.
If your expectation of post-death is heaven and St. Peter, you may just get that. It’s just a dream. But it’s not just your dream, so the form may vary. The film What Dreams May Come explores this beautifully. When the protagonist dies, he enters a world of his wife’s paintings. Gradually, he opens up and eventually is able to join the group dream. With adventures and rescue along the way
on August 7th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I have often said that I can hardly wait to die so i can see what happens. That being said I am quite happy to experience more of this life. My fear is that I will lose who I am when I die. I have the same fear with the idea of oneness. (I know that doesn’t change the validity. I feel that I will lose who I am if all is one because how can I be me if there is no you, there is just us or one consciousness. Does this make sense?
Thanks, Tom (TRCoach)
on August 7th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
@Tom
Just remember that the fear is the small self talking. It fears its own loss. You mistakenly identify it as “you”. Awakening is when you awaken from the mistaken identification and realize “you” is a much bigger, grander ‘thing’.
When you die, the body falls away but the ‘you’ continues, probably more than you actually want. (laughs) Oneness elicits the same fear for the same reasons. But nothing is lost, everything is gained. Oneness is not the same as one individual, it is inclusive of everything. So the person of Tom is there, but now in the wholeness, an aspect of a much greater being. What you loose in awakening is only the illusion of being separate. What you gain is everything you ever felt was missing. And more.
on August 7th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
@TRCoach I know what you are speaking of. The fear of losing yourself. But the best part is, there is no self to lose. There is no you. Just consciousness. So the “you” that would be lost is a false you, a non-you. What you are is never lost. Just always and forever present. Thanks for the comment! Nice to have you here.
on August 10th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Hey Tom, I really like the way you approached this question, particularly the point about how NDE’s aren’t death. They’re simply an NDE.
on August 10th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
@Ariel Yes, they are just an NDE. And when you have a real death experience, then you’ll know.
on August 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
I think it is important to remember not to get trapped in the illusions of duality. Yes, it is important to see/come to truly know that who we really are is neither our body itself, nor our conditioned ego-self. At the same time, we must be mindful of the trappings of mistaking our rational, dualistic concepts for reality.
One of the things I shake my head at is statues of fat Buddhas. Why? Because it speaks to this exact misunderstanding. People think that if we are not our bodies, then our bodies don’t matter. We can let them go, get fat, whatever. But, anyone who truly gets it will see for themselves that the Buddha was probably not fat at all, but rather quite fit. How can you be alert, aware, awake if your body has gone to hell? How do you feel when you don’t take care of yourself? Not very good. And that affects your mood, your ability to focus, be productive, etc. A fit body goes along with a fit mind and vice versa. They “go together.” And one definitely needs a fit mind to walk this path. Can someone who is paralyzed walk the path? Of course. That’s not the point. The point is the ignorance behind using dualistic thought as an excuse for any kind of sloth, mental or physical.
The point is not that an awakened one will not experience bodily disease or what have you. The point is that an awakened one does not cling to the pain, the disease. It is a matter of (non) attachment.
People tend to take this stuff too far into metaphysics. But, the Buddha himself never talked about his path as one of metaphysics. It was all about the end of suffering. Awakening from the illusions of our conditioned existences. Getting too technical can create more roadblocks. Remember the point of “Right Focus.”
Be mindful of the trappings of duality and dualistic thought.
on December 13th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
from the realizers ‘point of view’,there’s no death,no suffering,bcause there’s no ‘i’.so,whether embodied,or after the dissolution of the body,their “state” is the same.
however,for those whom the confusion/question(i.e death and life) still arises(if u r a realized person,such Q had vanished,if it still arises,then u r still not enlightened),it can profitably be “said”/”explained” that when the enlightened ones dies,their “holding” to “form”/aggregates been finally realesed(it has been released while still trap in this body actually),so there is no more rebirth(i.e manifestation in whatever form,mental or physical).
on December 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
There is simply no death, since your innermost being is never born! So the question is irrelevant. Do not waste your time with this subject. It is like blind people talking about light. They may have heard about it, about colors, etc, but it’s not a personal experience. It’s borrowed. Anyway. We see it as “death” because the one is “finished” but we have never been into that experience. “Death” for the one it has the same beauty like life or love. We are very limited in our thinking, and what is “on the other side” is something our mind cannot even conceive. Can one fully understand love, sleep, etc? We called “death” because for our mind this is the end. But we are not the mind, and what is beyond that cannot be understood by mind, it’s illogical. We are taught since childhood that we should think logically. Is important to drop that. Beyond mind logic doesn’t apply. We are used to think in terms of: good/bad, love/hate, yes/no, hapy/unhappy. There is a third case. Either you read this or you do not read this, but how about if this “you” has never been born? Then you cannot say either you read or you do not because the subject has never been. Whatever. The awakened one beaks the “life/death” circle. It’s the last incarnation. He can see himself living, walking, sleeping, and dying too. Whoever knows life will know death too.
on December 19th, 2008 at 6:56 am
@nobody Well, yes, quite true that there is no death as there was no birth. That is the “truth.” Yet from the experience of those in world of form, there appears to be a death of “someone,” namely the so called awakened. To the rest of the world this one seems to die. That’s what I was addressing. From the human perspective.
on December 19th, 2008 at 10:33 am
The only thing which “dies” is whatever is earth made: the body (which transforms), and mind made: the ego, the identity, the personality (which dissipates in most cases). The awakened one breaks free from all this (not the physical body… yet). He lives between two worlds until he melts INTO the ocean, and then remains THE ocean. If you knew the awakened one, just manifest love, great love, and you will feel “him” into your heart along with an immense joy. “Death” is a word used by the ones who sees the man only as a physical body, nothing before, nothing after, that’s it, “it’s no more”, “…it was a great man”, “rest in peace” (everything which is within the mind boundaries). Remember: these are just a bunch of empty words, but you guys got the idea.